A Dialogue On Depth - Revision history

Checker at 01:18, 8 February 2012

2012-02-08T01:18:43Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:18, 8 February 2012
Line 21:		Line 21:
	</center>		</center>

	I gave a short list of games I think are work thinking about when pondering these ideas: ''Go'', ''Poker'', ''Counter-Strike'', ''The Sims'', ''Super Meat Boy'', ''Shiren The Wanderer'', ''Dwarf Fortress'', ''Braid'', ''Thief'', ''Little Big Planet'', and ''Spore''.		I gave a short list of games I think are work thinking about when pondering these ideas: ''Go'', ''Poker'', ''Counter-Strike'', ''The Sims'', ''Super Meat Boy'', ''Shiren The Wanderer'', ''Dwarf Fortress'', ''Braid'', ''Thief'', ''Little Big Planet'', and ''Spore''. ''Magic: The Gathering'' got mentioned a lot as well.

	I also think this is all loosely tied to ideas from philosophy about the difference between the ''Beautiful'' and the ''Sublime'', some discussion of which you can find [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublime_(philosophy) here].		I also think this is all loosely tied to ideas from philosophy about the difference between the ''Beautiful'' and the ''Sublime'', some discussion of which you can find [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublime_(philosophy) here].

Checker at 23:10, 11 November 2011

2011-11-11T23:10:05Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:10, 11 November 2011
Line 26:		Line 26:

	We talk a bit about ''500 Hour Games'', games you can play for 500+ hours. These are deep games like ''Counter-Strike'', ''Go'', ''Starcraft'', and ''League of Legends''. It also includes games that aren't necessarily deep, like ''Bejeweled'', ''Solitaire'', and ''Angry Birds'', which we categorized as ''Past-times''.		We talk a bit about ''500 Hour Games'', games you can play for 500+ hours. These are deep games like ''Counter-Strike'', ''Go'', ''Starcraft'', and ''League of Legends''. It also includes games that aren't necessarily deep, like ''Bejeweled'', ''Solitaire'', and ''Angry Birds'', which we categorized as ''Past-times''.

			You should also go watch [http://areacodeinc.com/people/frank-lantz/ Frank Lantz]'s excellent GDC 2011 talk, [http://gdcvault.com/play/1014383/Life-and-Death-and-Middle ''Life and Death and Middle Pair: Go, Poker and the Sublime''].

	<center>		<center>

Checker at 23:04, 11 November 2011

2011-11-11T23:04:31Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:04, 11 November 2011
Line 24:		Line 24:

	I also think this is all loosely tied to ideas from philosophy about the difference between the ''Beautiful'' and the ''Sublime'', some discussion of which you can find [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublime_(philosophy) here].		I also think this is all loosely tied to ideas from philosophy about the difference between the ''Beautiful'' and the ''Sublime'', some discussion of which you can find [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublime_(philosophy) here].

			We talk a bit about ''500 Hour Games'', games you can play for 500+ hours. These are deep games like ''Counter-Strike'', ''Go'', ''Starcraft'', and ''League of Legends''. It also includes games that aren't necessarily deep, like ''Bejeweled'', ''Solitaire'', and ''Angry Birds'', which we categorized as ''Past-times''.

	<center>		<center>

Checker at 22:49, 11 November 2011

2011-11-11T22:49:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:49, 11 November 2011
Line 20:		Line 20:
	\|}		\|}
	</center>		</center>

			I gave a short list of games I think are work thinking about when pondering these ideas: ''Go'', ''Poker'', ''Counter-Strike'', ''The Sims'', ''Super Meat Boy'', ''Shiren The Wanderer'', ''Dwarf Fortress'', ''Braid'', ''Thief'', ''Little Big Planet'', and ''Spore''.

			I also think this is all loosely tied to ideas from philosophy about the difference between the ''Beautiful'' and the ''Sublime'', some discussion of which you can find [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublime_(philosophy) here].

	<center>		<center>
	{{#widget:MyPlick\|id=bPrNYioJDsR\|width=600\|height=514}}		{{#widget:MyPlick\|id=bPrNYioJDsR\|width=600\|height=514}}

Checker at 17:53, 7 November 2011

2011-11-07T17:53:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:53, 7 November 2011
Line 1:		Line 1:
	At [http://indiecade.com/ IndieCade 2011] this year, I led a discussion on the idea of ''depth'' in games with my friend [http://interestingchoices.com/ Paul Sottosanti], who is not only a great designer, but he is also one of the two elite [http://www.spyparty.com '''SpyParty'''] playtesters. We decided we don't really know what depth in games actually is, so instead of trying to give a lecture about it and flail around, we simply asked the audience what they thought.		At [http://indiecade.com/ IndieCade 2011] this year, I led a discussion on the idea of ''depth'' in games with my friend [http://interestingchoices.com/ Paul Sottosanti], who is not only a great designer, but he is also one of the two elite [http://www.spyparty.com '''SpyParty'''] playtesters. We decided we don't really know what depth in games actually is, so instead of trying to give a lecture about it and flail around, we simply asked the audience what they thought.

	~~Both~~ Paul and I ~~did both give~~ quick intro talks about our thoughts on the topic to get things started, and then we opened it up to questions and comments. I put a slide up at the end of my short talk to try to tease apart some of the things people often conflate with depth, and it had this taxonomy of ideas:		Paul and I gave quick intro talks about our thoughts on the topic to get things started, and then we opened it up to questions and comments. I put a slide up at the end of my short talk to try to tease apart some of the things people often conflate with depth, and it had this taxonomy of ideas:

	<center>		<center>

Checker at 08:25, 7 November 2011

2011-11-07T08:25:57Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:25, 7 November 2011
Line 1:		Line 1:
	At [http://indiecade.com/ IndieCade 2011] this year, I led a discussion on the idea of ''depth'' in games with my friend [http://interestingchoices.com/ Paul Sottosanti], who is not only a great designer ~~himself~~, but ~~who~~ is also one of the two elite [http://www.spyparty.com '''SpyParty'''] playtesters. We decided we don't really know what depth in games actually is, so instead of trying to give a lecture about it and flail around, we simply asked the audience what they thought.		At [http://indiecade.com/ IndieCade 2011] this year, I led a discussion on the idea of ''depth'' in games with my friend [http://interestingchoices.com/ Paul Sottosanti], who is not only a great designer, but he is also one of the two elite [http://www.spyparty.com '''SpyParty'''] playtesters. We decided we don't really know what depth in games actually is, so instead of trying to give a lecture about it and flail around, we simply asked the audience what they thought.

	Both Paul and I did both give quick intro talks about our thoughts on the topic to get things started, and then we opened it up to questions and comments. I put a slide up at the end of my short talk to try to tease apart some of the things people often conflate with depth, and it had this taxonomy of ideas:		Both Paul and I did both give quick intro talks about our thoughts on the topic to get things started, and then we opened it up to questions and comments. I put a slide up at the end of my short talk to try to tease apart some of the things people often conflate with depth, and it had this taxonomy of ideas:

Checker at 08:23, 7 November 2011

2011-11-07T08:23:15Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:23, 7 November 2011
Line 13:		Line 13:
	\|align="right"\|single-player		\|align="right"\|single-player
	\|vs.		\|vs.
	\|multi-player		\|align="left"\|multi-player
	\|-		\|-
	\|align="right"\|player-skill		\|align="right"\|player-skill
	\|vs.		\|vs.
	\|avatar-skill		\|align="left"\|avatar-skill
	\|}		\|}
	</center>		</center>

Checker at 08:22, 7 November 2011

2011-11-07T08:22:33Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:22, 7 November 2011
Line 9:		Line 9:
	\|align="right"\|deep		\|align="right"\|deep
	\|vs.		\|vs.
	\|hard mental<br/>hard physical<br/>complicated<br/>meaningful<br/>emergent<br/>wide		\|align="left"\|hard mental<br/>hard physical<br/>complicated<br/>meaningful<br/>emergent<br/>wide
	\|-		\|-
	\|align="right"\|single-player		\|align="right"\|single-player

Checker: Created page with "At [http://indiecade.com/ IndieCade 2011] this year, I led a discussion on the idea of ''depth'' in games with my friend [http://interestingchoices.com/ Paul Sottosanti], who is ..."

2011-11-07T08:19:21Z

Created page with "At [http://indiecade.com/ IndieCade 2011] this year, I led a discussion on the idea of ''depth'' in games with my friend [http://interestingchoices.com/ Paul Sottosanti], who is ..."

New page

At [http://indiecade.com/ IndieCade 2011] this year, I led a discussion on the idea of ''depth'' in games with my friend [http://interestingchoices.com/ Paul Sottosanti], who is not only a great designer himself, but who is also one of the two elite [http://www.spyparty.com '''SpyParty'''] playtesters. We decided we don't really know what depth in games actually is, so instead of trying to give a lecture about it and flail around, we simply asked the audience what they thought.

Both Paul and I did both give quick intro talks about our thoughts on the topic to get things started, and then we opened it up to questions and comments. I put a slide up at the end of my short talk to try to tease apart some of the things people often conflate with depth, and it had this taxonomy of ideas:

<center>
{|cellpadding="10"
|+'''Depth Topics'''
|-
|align="right"|deep
|vs.
|hard mental hard physical complicated meaningful emergent wide
|-
|align="right"|single-player
|vs.
|multi-player
|-
|align="right"|player-skill
|vs.
|avatar-skill
|}
</center>
<center>
{{#widget:MyPlick|id=bPrNYioJDsR|width=600|height=514}}
</center>

Here is the raw [[Media:indiecade11-DialogOnDepth.ppt|ppt]] and [[Media:indiecade11-DialogOnDepth.mp3|mp3]].

[[Category:Lectures]]
[[Category:Design]]